tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post4658566144005114120..comments2023-12-14T12:23:41.494-08:00Comments on Big Dog, Little Dog: The Tools of Our CraftDonald Clarkhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01980740206430947090noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post-12668795031369217402011-03-04T03:37:24.043-08:002011-03-04T03:37:24.043-08:00Claude Lineberry said something to the effect that...Claude Lineberry said something to the effect that 89% of ISPI presentations cite Tom Gilbert, but only 14.5% of the citers have read him. I think something similar holds true for Kirkpatrick. I don't consider the four levels as much of a model; I see them as a simplified analogy, a good-enough way to guide trainers and their clients toward bigger-picture thinking.<br /><br />I believe an awful lot of formal training is, if not divorced from the job setting, clearly operating under a separation agreement. As you suggest, considering the four levels (like it? learned it? use it? got results?) has at least the potential to reconcile the two sides. <br /><br />Alas, my experience over many years suggests a sizeable portion of in-house trainers use the four levels much as they use the nine-dot puzzle, the Maslow pyramid, and that business about remembering 20% of what you read but 40% of what you eat (or however it goes): reflexively, almost ritualistically, as part the standard ingredients in a recipe for cognitive meatloaf.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post-30175531480372027542011-02-22T08:25:13.762-08:002011-02-22T08:25:13.762-08:00Hi Glenn,
I'm not sure what you mean by it bei...Hi Glenn,<br />I'm not sure what you mean by it being an "event" as the model carries the learning from the learning, to the classroom, to the workplace, and finally to the impact it has on the organization. Thus I see it as being very much a process. I wrote more about this is a new post, <a href="http://bdld.blogspot.com/2011/02/using-kirkpatricks-four-levels-to.html" rel="nofollow">Using Kirkpatrick's Four Levels to Create and Evaluate Informal & Social Learning Processes</a>.<br /><br />However, if you blindly follow the process, then yes, it probably does looks like a rigid event-based model. Thus it is up to the designer on how he or she was to follow it -- like a rigid old model stuck in time or a process that flows with the ever changing needs of training.Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01980740206430947090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post-30297072816066554532011-02-21T13:25:47.926-08:002011-02-21T13:25:47.926-08:00Can't say I agree with your points here. For o...Can't say I agree with your points here. For one, "flipping" the Kirkpatrick model for use as a planning tool is not evolution. It's simply an alternative use of the same old system, and using it this way ensures that the very system itself will fail to evolve, as the whole process, from design of learning to assessment of effectiveness becomes a circular journey enclosed in the four levels model.<br /><br />Dan Pontefract's point was not that the Kirkpatrick model was ugly or "disgusting", but that it has not evolved along with the learning profession. The model's continual focus on learning as an event, a point-in-time intervention, does not reflect the way we learn the vast majority of what we need to be effective in the workplace (or anywhere else, for that matter). The event-based approach to learning is at the core of the Kirkpatrick evaluation model, and until it evolves to more accurately reflect how learning and mastery happens, it will continue to have its detractors - and they will continue to have good grounds for criticism.<br /><br />Having said that, thanks for adding to the debate and providing a vehicle for discussion of an important topic to all learning professionals.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928244886994853683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post-80372482445122586512011-02-17T10:20:18.153-08:002011-02-17T10:20:18.153-08:00The voices of Ponetfract and Kirkpatrick are very...The voices of Ponetfract and Kirkpatrick are very representative of competing positions in the learning profession. I’m not sure the polarization is serving us well. I like your analysis here. There are truths on both sides of the fence and the artificial dichotomy between formal and informal learning are broadening the gap. Some thought’s on that on my blog here:<br />http://bit.ly/gOuVfYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7743873.post-67894107532461605512011-02-14T06:31:34.139-08:002011-02-14T06:31:34.139-08:00Agreed. Many of our tools have not evolved much th...Agreed. Many of our tools have not evolved much themselves - except within other evolving contexts and processes and how we now apply them. Thanks for your post!Guy W. Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01462952681694155575noreply@blogger.com